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Total Newbie
Posts: 24
| Rule : No spike / Out-gearing
Nvik Staff(main) Spartan
Cannon Elementalist Inventor
Ministral Monk Exo
120+ upgrade.
Cookie cutter set up is
First Movement
1.) Hit on turn 1
2. ) Inventor summon / combo 2 + puri Scroll / dispel if DMF (Don't think scroll can be canceled)
3.) ice ridge war cry manaseal
4.)awakening salvation FlameBlow combo 1 on 7 mercs. (enemy goes into awakening like mad or gets stunned for the rest of the match.)
If 2nd movement
1.) Hit on turn 2
2. ) Inventor summon ice ridge manaseal + 1/2 Awakening scroll
3.) warcry FlameBlow combo 1 on 7 mercs. (enemy goes into awakening like mad or gets stunned for the rest of the match.)
Half the match is won from this point.
Rule : No spike / Out-gearing
Any ideas?
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Night Ruler
Posts: 339
 
| dmf |
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Night Ruler
Posts: 332
| SomeoneOutThere - 11/19/2009 8:08 AM
Rule : No spike / Out-gearing
Nvik Staff(main) Spartan
Cannon Elementalist Inventor
Ministral Monk Exo
120+ upgrade.
Cookie cutter set up is
First Movement
1.) Hit on turn 1
2. ) Inventor summon / combo 2 + puri Scroll / dispel if DMF (Don't think scroll can be canceled)
3.) ice ridge war cry manaseal
4.)awakening salvation FlameBlow combo 1 on 7 mercs. (enemy goes into awakening like mad or gets stunned for the rest of the match.)
If 2nd movement
1.) Hit on turn 2
2. ) Inventor summon ice ridge manaseal + 1/2 Awakening scroll
3.) warcry FlameBlow combo 1 on 7 mercs. (enemy goes into awakening like mad or gets stunned for the rest of the match.)
Half the match is won from this point.
Rule : No spike / Out-gearing
Any ideas?
Getting personal, what the hell with no spike? With all the dmf/control builds spike shines the most with nina...
anyways I used exact replica of your build and shot down in titan (semifinals) twice
vs. this dmf build, and yes exact same build:
(sorry i got positions wrong)
N.viking - spartan - staffM
cannoneer - monk - inventor
exo - jani - monk
edit: too lazy to explain whole thing but essentially your being
very narrow-minded about 2nd-3rd turn what the OPPONENTS do, they also
are puri/awaken scroll 2nd-3rd turns, which is why your "ideal cookie cutter" is just
utter naivety
and back to your "rule", in own server the build was also shot down vs. spike builds with ele or nina.
Up to you to decide if it was my patheticness or builds fault, but i have won 9 wkc's and 1 titan so...
edit #2: and after seeing Blaastor's post it reminds me, i used to frontline staff too, it's really not that
cool
Edited by Boobear 11/19/2009 8:21 AM
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Deathproof
Posts: 2453
Location: The Netherlands | Yeah;
As opponent with DMF, if I get first turn.
1. Probably skip turn if monks/oracle, unless I get pirate, I'd hit your Viking.
2. Puri scroll on oracle, hit Viking with pirate (again), summon machine.
3. Awaken midrow, use awaken scroll on oracle, HG midline.
4. Mana seal, bash your main. sorry but thats the way it works nowadays with staff mains on front row. (And as my exo is midrow, under HG I can always use mana seal). |
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Total Newbie
Posts: 24
| @Blaaster : Manaseal wont stick, ministral is there to puri, you'll proabably need awakening plus seal = 3 activations left. Not gonna kill staff main in 1 turn. And your team is probably at half health after FB. Hard to recover.
@Boobear : don't really understand you, I'm asking for a build that's not spike to beat that build as spike only works well with good gears. |
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Total Newbie
Posts: 24
| @Tusi. Dispel or dispel+awakening on 2nd turn. you get 2/3 activations on 3rd turn, not able to kill my scroll due to insufficent activations since u need to HG, you'll still eat Ice ridge flame blow mana seal and warcrry by turn 4 = half dead game. |
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Deathproof
Posts: 2453
Location: The Netherlands | SomeoneOutThere - 11/19/2009 4:45 PM
@Blaaster : Manaseal wont stick, ministral is there to puri, you'll proabably need awakening plus seal = 3 activations left. Not gonna kill staff main in 1 turn. And your team is probably at half health after FB. Hard to recover.
@Boobear : don't really understand you, I'm asking for a build that's not spike to beat that build as spike only works well with good gears.
Well Habu, best staff main on Mycenae removes 15% of my health with his flame blow.
2 attacks of piraat on your main = roughly 50% health gone, with simply single hits, and she uses 125 necky, so most likely she double hits, when you flame blow you cant heal so I'll be able to snipe, so eventually you'll have to start healing your main, = no flame blow = hardly any damage to me = heal my health back you removed :b |
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Total Newbie
Posts: 24
| @Blaaster I has protect and SpeedCast. dunno if they heal enough tho. whats your formation tho? |
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Deathproof
Posts: 2453
Location: The Netherlands | right now;
Spartan - N.Viking - Musician main
Pirate - exo - monk
oracle - monk - inventor.
Pirate and spartan mostly hit double, and crit a lot, when your mana sealed you dont heal and your monk will be useless during my turn :b |
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Gambler
Posts: 1012
| SomeoneOutThere - 11/19/2009 9:16 AM
@Blaaster I has protect and SpeedCast. dunno if they heal enough tho. whats your formation tho?
but you can be attacked under seal. so they seal and then pirate x2 all on the same turn. you may remove seal but while being attacked you eat it without shield. and if you insist flame blow, you will be snipe if you have monk protect instead of sop. since this is open formation, let's throw hwarang in and seal instrument on the same turn? builds like this exists, say LH:
bow{M} spartan exo
pirate prophet monk
monk oracle hwarang
Edited by meh 11/19/2009 9:55 AM
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Total Newbie
Posts: 24
| Tested some values :
pirate 120 with nix +4 swords
Prophet 120 with 70 concentrate
does 1.8k per hit noncrit on staffmain with nix
700 dmg from toxic level 60
StaffMain has 19k hp.
protect heals about 1.2k per turn on swordmain
Speed cast 70 heals 500 per turn
Based on those values : Pirate hits for 1.8k X 2 X 2 turns to hit + Spartan 2.5k damage crit, so 7.2k hp + toxic say 900 damage = 10.7k damage
Healing : salvation 700(based on AOP) + protect 1.1k + Speedcast 500 = 2k healing per turn.
You still have about 10k hp to take off from the staff main. Manashield + passive healing of 2k per turn will be in place.
Just theory crafting anyways,
Wait a minute, didn't i say no spike? xD
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Gambler
Posts: 1012
| well, from that number. first of all it's gona be a bit on high side because ridge reduce mdef and def. so toxic sword and physical hurts a bit more. plus there is damage from ridge itself and mana seal. so i would expect at least half hp down. and i thought most hits in this game would be crit? |
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Total Newbie
Posts: 24
| well, if worst comes to worst I'll just double heal instead. Thats 4.5k hp x2, so back to full life. and you're left with 75%-85% hp mercs while i'm on 100%.
EDIT : Damage from warcry or inventor / cannoneer / ice ridge.
Edited by SomeoneOutThere 11/19/2009 10:09 AM
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Gambler
Posts: 1012
| .. why would your opp have 65-75% life? double heal = no flame blow for another 4 turns. while you use activation to heal up a single target, they also do other stuff like stun/damage/heal you know. i think you also overestimate the damage... by 4-5th turn, it's not gonna hurt that much yet. but yeah the fight isn't finished by cancelling the first flame blow.
Edited by meh 11/19/2009 10:14 AM
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Cursed Swordsman
Posts: 71
| witch - witch - witch
witch - witch - witch
witch - witch - witch
UNBEATABLE ehehe |
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Deathproof
Posts: 2453
Location: The Netherlands | SomeoneOutThere - 11/19/2009 6:04 PM
well, if worst comes to worst I'll just double heal instead. Thats 4.5k hp x2, so back to full life. and you're left with 75%-85% hp mercs while i'm on 100%.
EDIT : Damage from warcry or inventor / cannoneer / ice ridge.
Double heal all you like, means you have no damage output, means free win for me in the end.
You'll be healing your back row main, GG about your front row who still takes htis from my pirate and spartan, and oh I failed to mention, you'll be awakening 1 or 2 times a turn with your monk when its not sealed aswell.
So how do you plan on doing damage? lol |
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Night Ruler
Posts: 332
| SomeoneOutThere - 11/19/2009 8:45 AM
@Blaaster : Manaseal wont stick, ministral is there to puri, you'll proabably need awakening plus seal = 3 activations left. Not gonna kill staff main in 1 turn. And your team is probably at half health after FB. Hard to recover.
@Boobear : don't really understand you, I'm asking for a build that's not spike to beat that build as spike only works well with good gears.
all you need for "good gears" is highest lvl tier amount level to you, my dg +10 sword hits MAX 100 dmg more than +0,
not to mention most of the time difference is hardly noticable.
And not sure what you misunderstand, but i'll try to say it again, here it is:
I HAD the EXACT same formation that you are showing here to us, and WHEN I USED THAT FORMATION
i reached the TITAN GRAND CHAMPIONSHIP SEMIFINALS TWICE IN A ROW, and lost to the SAME KIND OF OPPONENT twice in a row,
and that opponent was dmf + stun counters every turn + flame blow build.
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Gambler
Posts: 1133
| SomeoneOutThere - 11/19/2009 8:45 AM
@Blaaster : Manaseal wont stick, ministral is there to puri, you'll proabably need awakening plus seal = 3 activations left. Not gonna kill staff main in 1 turn. And your team is probably at half health after FB. Hard to recover.
With your formation, mana seal is gonna hit your monk AND your main, which are you gonna puri? Your gonna lose either, mana shield or protect buddy
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Philanthropist
Posts: 613
| I dunno Blaaster, your plan seems overly optimistic. For one thing, 2 single-hits from pirate will not take off 50% of a sealed staff main's health, that's impossible, especially with lv120 vit rings. Even if it did, you can't do it on turn 4 going first because their main will always be guarding on that turn. Staff main will always be guarding until he casts Flame Blow/heal, and that's the point where a smart SMF player will just move him to the back to prevent wtfpwnage.
Very dangerous to go for the main against that formation. If you fail, the match is just over.
Anyway, best build to beat this would include a hwarang and jani or multiple bows, but you don't want spike, so what can we tell you? The build is good, and anyone in DG gears will probably beat you with it no matter what you try, if your gear is as bad as you claim. Just play what you like.
Edit: Should mention I am playing DMF staff atm and I think that also has a huge advantage over the minstrel version.
Edited by Lvl3Prinny 11/19/2009 2:48 PM
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Deathproof
Posts: 2058
| imo, main spike r must to stop FB.
anyway dmf r called over power for a reason... |
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King of Darkness
Posts: 11371
| SomeoneOutThere - 11/19/2009 8:08 AM
Rule : No spike / Out-gearing
Nvik Staff(main) Spartan
Cannon Elementalist Inventor
Ministral Monk Exo
120+ upgrade.
NVIK - Spartan - Bow(m)
DA - Oracle - Monk
Monk - Exo - Inv
GG. Silence + Snipe pressured Minstrel = Dead. Inv stun pressures every turn possible. Main snipe pressures your Minstrel preventing many of your Puris from ever happening without facing death. DA keeps silence up on front mercs. Not a spike team, but still does the job fine.
If you want absolutely zero forms of spike:
Spear(m) - Spartan - Spear
Spear - Exo - Cannon
Monk - Inv - Monk
Have fun. Awaken Scroll + Dual HG front mid and it's GG for you as they endlessly AP drain your main. Your NVIK is never going to even Ice Ridge because of LSpear. You won't be able to |
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Cursed Swordsman
Posts: 91
| Sorry, but that build is very soft
Not to mention frontline staffM + Hwarang = dead main |
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Gambler
Posts: 1225
| skill 1st, Build 2nd place... Even if u got some 3 b class merc in your team, u will never win without skill. |
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Deathproof
Posts: 2058
| Azwani - 11/19/2009 8:34 PM
skill 1st, Build 2nd place... Even if u got some 3 b class merc in your team, u will never win without skill.
LH won titan few time u know.... |
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King of Darkness
Posts: 6744
| LBuffalo - 11/19/2009 5:52 PM
Azwani - 11/19/2009 8:34 PM
skill 1st, Build 2nd place... Even if u got some 3 b class merc in your team, u will never win without skill.
LH won titan few time u know....
Its more like, Build 1st place, gear 2nd place, skill 3rd place. |
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Beat this build.
