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Motivated
Posts: 28
| As title. I tried searching for information but came to no conclusion. Thanks!
Edited by JudgementBullet 11/1/2009 7:27 AM
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King of Darkness
Posts: 8506
   
| Decent. Not as good as other range mercs. |
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Monster Expert
Posts: 1510
| Multi arrow is pretty nice, and she can hit flyers, but generally single target mercs are not good for PvE |
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Gambler
Posts: 1258
Location: In Your Pants D: LET ME OUT!!! | better than DA:
archer that can use deep insight, has a normal attack that hits all mobs in enemy party, has a non-CD silence AND can use BOTH multi arrow and arrow cascade, with chaos wind as passive skill
damn, that would be a must, >_> |
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Monster Expert
Posts: 1510
| Kaiuuki - 11/1/2009 7:19 AM
better than DA:
archer that can use deep insight, has a normal attack that hits all mobs in enemy party, has a non-CD silence AND can use BOTH multi arrow and arrow cascade, with chaos wind as passive skill
damn, that would be a must, >_>
Yeah, like srsly |
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Motivated
Posts: 28
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Assassin
Posts: 193
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Comes down to the purpose of either bows:
-Archer: silence = no enemy magic attacks | Multi arrow: cross shaped magic attack that hits "anywhere" |
-Prophet: Concentrate = monk for melees, heals every turn and buffs attack power slightly | Broken/shattered/rusty weapons: Debuffs enemy attack power ( tremendously if you maxed one of them, insignificantly if spread out )
My choice: I took in both, because I'm a melee main and I prefer archer's silence over exo's mana seal. |
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Gambler
Posts: 986
| PvE : Prophet >> Archer, especially in melee heavy team. The acc buff and the +attack is quite significant to make your team a better fighting machine overall. DA has the advantage of being a better merc statswise overall but the skills are pretty crappy in PvE.
Multi-arrow might seem great when you first get it, I mean 'WoW, its almost as good as light slash, but can hit anywhere in a cross!' but even LK seldom uses lightslash later on in PvE :D
Silence is pretty pointless most of the time, because you can kill all the mobs by 3rd turn anyway/the mobs are overleveled that you will have a hard time even hitting with silence/you get a whole formation of the same mob, if you silence a row theres 2 more rows/skills you want to silence are already used before silence.
Slight offtopic: though imo, Hwarang is by far the most awesome bow for PvE making your ranged mercs go on steroids. |
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Total Newbie
Posts: 11
| In PvE, Prophet is better due to Concentrate. It will buff up your tanks, increase their life span and also leaving your healer to be able to heal any row in case your back rows get targetted. (Front liners are usually tanks) |
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Monster Expert
Posts: 1438
Location: Hervey Bay, Qld, Australia | I agree that in PVE prophet is more usefull, HOWEVER.
Prophets level fast, Archers are a pain to level, so if you take prophet over Archer now, its gonna be a pain in the butt if you change your mind later and wanna catch up your archer in levels.
Just some food for thought to confuse you more :P |
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Assassin
Posts: 193
| Are you sure Prophet levels up faster than an archer? considering one is a D-rank and the other is C-rank?
Heh, could always get a jinxed walachia bow and go on a killing spree with either if you can't afford magic scrolls.
Edit: almost forgot, they do catch up around level 95~100 if I'm not mistaken. so either one works.
Edited by Nokhatha 11/1/2009 11:34 PM
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Night Ruler
Posts: 260
Location: Macedon | In my experiences... Prophet is better than DA for PvE in general, because of the melee buffs (as previously mentioned). You almost always have 3 melee in front, so you should almost always have a prophet.
If i decide to use a second bow in PvE, i use hwarang, because my mid line is inv/cannon/prophet. his buff on that line makes a huge difference. The only time i use DA in PvE is boss fights, or against very high defense mobs, who i need to focus fire multiple mercs each turn to kill. In that case, i make a mid row of hwarang/DA/prophet. |
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Monster Expert
Posts: 1510
| Flazzard - 11/1/2009 1:02 PM
PvE : Prophet >> Archer, especially in melee heavy team. The acc buff and the +attack is quite significant to make your team a better fighting machine overall. DA has the advantage of being a better merc statswise overall but the skills are pretty crappy in PvE.
Multi-arrow might seem great when you first get it, I mean 'WoW, its almost as good as light slash, but can hit anywhere in a cross!' but even LK seldom uses lightslash later on in PvE :D
Silence is pretty pointless most of the time, because you can kill all the mobs by 3rd turn anyway/the mobs are overleveled that you will have a hard time even hitting with silence/you get a whole formation of the same mob, if you silence a row theres 2 more rows/skills you want to silence are already used before silence.
Slight offtopic: though imo, Hwarang is by far the most awesome bow for PvE making your ranged mercs go on steroids.
+1 all the way |
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Deathproof
Posts: 2815
Location: Argos | Richard - 11/2/2009 6:16 AM
In my experiences... Prophet is better than DA for PvE in general, because of the melee buffs (as previously mentioned). You almost always have 3 melee in front, so you should almost always have a prophet.
If i decide to use a second bow in PvE, i use hwarang, because my mid line is inv/cannon/prophet. his buff on that line makes a huge difference. The only time i use DA in PvE is boss fights, or against very high defense mobs, who i need to focus fire multiple mercs each turn to kill. In that case, i make a mid row of hwarang/DA/prophet.
Good Analysis!
Prophet is definitely better in PvE than DA for most standard teams because of melee heal and other bonus. She also has her debuffs which can be useful at times in PvE.
DA is good for bosses. Both are useful in PvP. |
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Gambler
Posts: 847
Location: Germany | To be honest you can't compare any of the mercs with each other saying the one is better or badder than the other because they all have their own pro and contras.
What I would say is mainly based in your formation from which one you would benefit more.
Yes I have 3 melees in my main formation of my main character and I'm still using my DA over my Prophet because she is more useful to me in pve and pvp.
Needless to say that the Prophet runs out of mana pretty fast if you have many melees in your party and use her skills additionaly to her passive skill.
On my alt character I don't need either cause I'm bow main and have a full ranged party covered mostly with artys. ^_^
So to be able to say what would be better for you, we would have to see your formation first.
As about the Multi Arrow: it depends on the stats of your DA. In my case she gives 2k+ damage per mob with multi arrow in the most cases (crits even higher) so you can't say it's useless at all.
Most of all since it's not limited on what mobs it can be used making it more flexible than the Prophets weapon based skills.
In my opinion they are both good mercs and you should rather decide based on your formations needs. |
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Assassin
Posts: 113
| I actually agree with Joala. It depends on your formation. I actually use both, and I cant quite agree that the prophet levels faster than the DA. but yeah my prophet has a higher damages and concentrate is very useful since I have 4 melee. |
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Night Ruler
Posts: 266
| Joala - 11/4/2009 7:52 AM
To be honest you can't compare any of the mercs with each other saying the one is better or badder than the other because they all have their own pro and contras.
What I would say is mainly based in your formation from which one you would benefit more.
Yes I have 3 melees in my main formation of my main character and I'm still using my DA over my Prophet because she is more useful to me in pve and pvp.
Needless to say that the Prophet runs out of mana pretty fast if you have many melees in your party and use her skills additionaly to her passive skill.
On my alt character I don't need either cause I'm bow main and have a full ranged party covered mostly with artys. ^_^
So to be able to say what would be better for you, we would have to see your formation first.
As about the Multi Arrow: it depends on the stats of your DA. In my case she gives 2k+ damage per mob with multi arrow in the most cases (crits even higher) so you can't say it's useless at all.
Most of all since it's not limited on what mobs it can be used making it more flexible than the Prophets weapon based skills.
In my opinion they are both good mercs and you should rather decide based on your formations needs.
Several things wrong here. Prophet passive drains the same amount of mana every turn, regardless of the number of melees you have (if you have ZERO melee, it still drains so long as prophet isn't silenced). Multi Arrow damage can't "crit". It's fixed damage. It's a spell. It does more damage to enemies with low mdef, and less damage to ones with high mdef.
In PvE, 90% of the time, Proph will be better than DA. Silence immunity is on all bosses past 100 IIRC. Multi-arrow damage is pretty weak. In PvE you'll have at least 3 melee. Though possible you don't, if you don't, you probably have an exceedingly high tolerance for pain or are so overgeared you could afford to get both and stick one in a merc room when you don't feel like using it. That alone pretty much pushes proph ahead of DA in most cases. |
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Philanthropist
Posts: 405
| DA does more damage by itself.. prophet makes ur melee mercs do more damage. So if u frontline staff/range main.. prob better off with DA :D |
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Gambler
Posts: 847
Location: Germany | Trellia - 11/4/2009 10:50 PM
Several things wrong here. Prophet passive drains the same amount of mana every turn, regardless of the number of melees you have (if you have ZERO melee, it still drains so long as prophet isn't silenced). Multi Arrow damage can't "crit". It's fixed damage. It's a spell. It does more damage to enemies with low mdef, and less damage to ones with high mdef.
In PvE, 90% of the time, Proph will be better than DA. Silence immunity is on all bosses past 100 IIRC. Multi-arrow damage is pretty weak. In PvE you'll have at least 3 melee. Though possible you don't, if you don't, you probably have an exceedingly high tolerance for pain or are so overgeared you could afford to get both and stick one in a merc room when you don't feel like using it. That alone pretty much pushes proph ahead of DA in most cases.
Several things wrong here and back at you dear trellia. :P
- I wrote that the prophet will run out of mana fast if he would additionaly use her skills while at the same time have several melees.
- In a formation without melees or only 1 melee a Prophet would be pointless alone through the fact that she would still drain mana while the DAs skills would still be useful
- The multiarrow damage makes 2k+ damage on up to 5 enemies so it can't be considered weak.
- The "Criticals" I mean't were when a magic defence skill is applied to a mob like the freezing/ridge axe.
Maybe I should had explained better so it was my bad on that.
- A full ranged party with decent equips + a princess is working well and without having to deal with THAT much pain(My alt is full ranged). ^_^ |
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Night Ruler
Posts: 260
Location: Macedon | Pretty sure that multi arrow doesnt do full damage to all 5 mercs you target. it does the full amount to the primary target, and (half?) to all the splash targets.
personally, the only time i ever use multi arrow in PvE is if there's 2 or mobs next to each other, and one of them has no HP left. i'll target the stronger one to do at least a little damage to it, while still killing the weak one. aside from those situations, you're better off to just use a normal attack, you're more likely to kill your target in one turn.
even if i had just 1 melee in my formation, i'd still choose prophet over DA for PvE. multi arrow is to situational, and i dont remember the last time ive ever used silence, especially in PvE. The prophet's concentrate speaks for itself, and a maxed out broken sword skill does some pretty decent damage these days. |
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Assassin
Posts: 113
| ^ if I had only one melee.. I'd pick archer. well for me archers are pvp oriented cuz silence is very useful. But yeah in a normal formation and damage wise, Prophet is better. Good thing I have both to avoid this dilemma. lol |
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Philanthropist
Posts: 630
| For physical attack, DA has higher native crit rate than prophet (based on written stats in game), but from my observation, prophet has higher native combo rate than DA. |
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Gambler
Posts: 847
Location: Germany | Richard - 11/5/2009 1:08 PM
Pretty sure that multi arrow doesnt do full damage to all 5 mercs you target. it does the full amount to the primary target, and (half?) to all the splash targets.
personally, the only time i ever use multi arrow in PvE is if there's 2 or mobs next to each other, and one of them has no HP left. i'll target the stronger one to do at least a little damage to it, while still killing the weak one. aside from those situations, you're better off to just use a normal attack, you're more likely to kill your target in one turn.
even if i had just 1 melee in my formation, i'd still choose prophet over DA for PvE. multi arrow is to situational, and i dont remember the last time ive ever used silence, especially in PvE. The prophet's concentrate speaks for itself, and a maxed out broken sword skill does some pretty decent damage these days.
It does equal damage because it is a spell and not a cross shaped physical attack like the Arty.
I've seen a good 2400 damage floating over the heads of 5 targets at once several times in my case.
The thing is that no matter how maxed your broken sword is, it applies to sword based enemies ONLY while the Multi Arrow affects any enemies.
That makes it as a skill more versatile than the prophet skills and more useful in the long run.
Broken Sword or any of the Prophet Skills are situational, Multi Arrow is not and silence isn't either (Except of some silence immune bosses).
Go into silent detroit in which enemy parties are totally mixed between melee and ranged enemies.
Your prophet would go physical in most of the cases only while your DA would spread some good damage with her spells additionaly preventing the holy guard mafiosos from using that skill by silencing them additionaly(just an example).
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Monster Expert
Posts: 1510
| Multi arrow does lowered damage on sides, like all other cross skills. Even mana burn, just that mana burn drains the same amount of mana across all 5 targets.
But it's still a good skill, though if compared with prophet in PvE, concentrate > multi arrow for all dungeons where physical attacks works. However there are dungeons where skill spam is the only way to go. |
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Night Ruler
Posts: 266
| Joala - 11/4/2009 11:46 PM
Trellia - 11/4/2009 10:50 PM
Several things wrong here. Prophet passive drains the same amount of mana every turn, regardless of the number of melees you have (if you have ZERO melee, it still drains so long as prophet isn't silenced). Multi Arrow damage can't "crit". It's fixed damage. It's a spell. It does more damage to enemies with low mdef, and less damage to ones with high mdef.
In PvE, 90% of the time, Proph will be better than DA. Silence immunity is on all bosses past 100 IIRC. Multi-arrow damage is pretty weak. In PvE you'll have at least 3 melee. Though possible you don't, if you don't, you probably have an exceedingly high tolerance for pain or are so overgeared you could afford to get both and stick one in a merc room when you don't feel like using it. That alone pretty much pushes proph ahead of DA in most cases.
Several things wrong here and back at you dear trellia. :P
- I wrote that the prophet will run out of mana fast if he would additionaly use her skills while at the same time have several melees.
- In a formation without melees or only 1 melee a Prophet would be pointless alone through the fact that she would still drain mana while the DAs skills would still be useful
- The multiarrow damage makes 2k+ damage on up to 5 enemies so it can't be considered weak.
- The "Criticals" I mean't were when a magic defence skill is applied to a mob like the freezing/ridge axe.
Maybe I should had explained better so it was my bad on that.
- A full ranged party with decent equips + a princess is working well and without having to deal with THAT much pain (My alt is full ranged ). ^_^
In practice 9/10s of Proph mana consumption is conc. In context, lvl 70/120 upgrade conc is 351 mana a turn. Lvl 60/120 upgrade shattered sword is 445 mana. By the time you can even use a skill, conc will have burned 1053 mana. Using a level 60 skill at every opportunity doesn't even add 50% additional consumption, not to mention the skills are generally a waste of activations if they aren't on adds because you'll have cleared a good number of mobs by that time. And this still doesn't change the fact that 70/120 conc uses 351 mana per turn, regardless of the number of melee mercs you have.
Your alt is not at the endgame. My ranged had trouble tanking in constan in +5/6 freeze w/ lvl 60 PO active. They were dying on the second row to the robots in dallas. And it only gets harder from there on out. Princess' Orders is only useful later if you have a blessing license active as well, and generally only if you keep your ranged on the 2nd or 3rd row. Once it stops upgrading and the mobs keep getting stronger, you will notice an extreme deficiency in healing power. You WILL have 3 melee at least when you reach endgame PvE, or, as I said, very high + gear (I'm talking full 7+ , in which case, you can afford both DA and proph and a perm merc room. Conc remains useful because it gives about half a shaman heal a turn and increases your accuracy (and buffs your attack a bit, but it's fairly marginal).
All column and cross skills do reduced damage/healing to the secondary targets. No exceptions that I can think of at the moment. (yes, DI and RM at 20-50 do reduced damage to the secondary targets) IIRC, MA does 1/2-2/3 damage to the secondary targets. And MA IS weak. Its base listed damage at lvl 60/120 upgrade is 1936. In comparison, wild shot, generally considered a fairly weak skill is base 2105 at lvl 60/120 upgrade. MA is good in dallas, detroit, and aztec where the mobs are mostly low mdef/high def. Beyond that, MA is pretty eh. |
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Is Dark Archer good in PvE? How about Prophet? Which is better?
